Ortho Elementals - More Questions than Answers

Yesterday I wrote about the lies that Ortho put on their Elementals Insecticidal Soap. I also emailed the info to Green UPGRADER and today they've got the info up also.

On my way home last night I stopped at one of the Home Depots I sometimes shop in to see if the final labeling of the product is the same as on Scotts website. Look like yes, if there were any changes they weren't to the info I'm concerned about. Red outlines by me.

Product on the shelf. Includes the "MAY BE USED UP TO DAY OF HARVEST" and OMRI Listed labeling.

 

 

"May be applied to edibles up to day of harvest"

Thanks for telling me which foods you want me to use this on Ortho.

I did a little (or rather a LOT) of thinking on this last night. I went back to ORMI's website to look more into them (after all, I've only known of them for a day or two). I am thinking on their statements on their About page

screenshot from OMRI - Copyright © 2010 OMRI

  So this insecticide could be used for a USDA certified organic farm... You know this leads me to think that a small scale farmer - like a local farmer's market vendor - could see this product on the shelf, spot the OMRI logo on the label and assume it was perfect for their organic produce. Especially since the packaging of the product is screaming at you to use it on your food from every angle. A small scale grower might even look it up on OMRI's website to make sure it's organic. And if that grower looked up this product on OMRI's site they'd see this:

 screenshot from OMRI - Copyright © 2010 OMRI

Farmers are people, and people aren't perfect. It's reasonable to assume that a farmer large or small scale might see the above result for their search for Ortho Elementals Insecticidal Soap and accept that as OMRI's approval - then go ahead and use the product just like its instructions say to... on the organic crops he/she is growing for consumers who want certified organic produce. What that farmer might miss (because we all make mistakes) is the info when you click the drop down for this product and the restriction against food crop usage:

screenshot from OMRI - Copyright © 2010 OMRI

I am more confused than ever about this. Why would OMRI approve something for organic growing - for products farmers can use to grow USDA certified organic produce - but not directly on that produce? Why would they allow their OMRI Listed logo to be used on that product's label if the label is also specifying the consumer to use it in a way not consistent with their approval restrictions?

When did I start sounding like an adult?

Sorry, tangent thought there. Their About info also has me thinking about OMRI. It says (and you can see in one of the screenshots above) they are non-profit and receive funding through donations, and "generates income through fees collected for the review of products intended for use in organic production or processing." For some reason this gives me a chill and reminds me of the USDA's deregulation process for Monanto's GMOs.

I am trying to find answers now. Unfortunately OMRI doesn't list an email address for questions. They have an online inquiry form that I filled out, but couldn't submit because their Captcha engine isn't working (it's not even showing up) and I keep getting error messages that the Captcha I entered being incorrect (can't even see or type one).

I have sent an email off to Scotts through their website reading:

Hi,
I was considering using your Elementals Insecticidal Soap product in my edible container garden. I am working towards a fully organic growing method and by this point I am only buying organic products. Preferable ones I make myself, are certified organic, or approved for USDA certified organic operations. This is just my own personal garden, I'm not selling any produce from it, but I want to make is as pure as I can.

I first heard of the Elementals line through Home Depot. I was happy to see on their (and your) website that it is safe for use on edibles and for organic growing. But then I noticed another info section on Home Depot's site that said it was not organic. I double checked Scotts product page which says it is.

I then checked OMRI since the product labeling states this item is ORMI Listed and found the following use restriction: "nonfood crop uses only; use on any food crop or fallow fields is prohibited." But your product clearly says it is food safe. Why does your ORMI approval depend on it not being used on food crops? If I understand OMRI's usage correctly, it means that this item would only be ok for USDA certified organic growing standards if I don't use it on edibles.

Would you please clarify this for me? I need an insecticidal soap for the summer, but it must be safe for my edibles.

Thank you,
Mary C.

That's non-threatening enough, no?

I think I'm going to continue to update on this...

Ortho Elementals is a LIE!

Yesterday thanks to Mike I learned about a tactic called Greenwashing. It's basically deceptive marketing to make people think a product is certified organic or all natural and safe. So yesterday I learned that the few Organic Choice products I had picked up are not really organic. Damint! I am going to either toss out what's left or take it to a S.A.F.E. disposal site. Of course that doesn't undo the fact that such product is already in my soil :/

Anyway, after the learning I soaked up yesterday I returned to my computer with a fresh brain today... and started thinking about the coupon Home Depot emailed to me yesterday... A biy one get one free for any 32 oz. Ortho Elementals.  I had looked up what the product was briefly yesterday to see one (there are four types listed on HD's site) was an "organic" insecticidal soap. I was thinking of getting it this weekend.

This morning I decided to investigate this product a little. It turned into much more than a little and I am not happy at all (except that I didn't buy it). I sent what I found off to Green UPGRADER and Mike, and I was gonna wait for more experienced people to look into it... but I'm so pissed I'm sharing now! All emphasis in quoted text is mine.

So here's our culprit:

Notice that big blank green area at the bottom of the sticker?

Remember that for later...

So the most important info gained from Home Depot's site is the following:

• If you click the Zoom View link to read the labels you find -
•  The white sticker on the spray head reads "MAY BE USED UP TO DAY OF HARVEST"
• One the main label sticker it reads "For organic gardening"
• Product Description tab has the following statement: " "The soap can be used up to the day of harvest and is organic for safe use" and "Organic formula for safe use in your garden"
• Specifications tab states: "Organic : No" <---- RED FLAG PEOPLES!

Um, that's some kinda contradiction there. Is it organic or no? Also the use of the word "harvest" here obviously implies they expect you to use this product on your veggie, herb and fruit plants. So it has to be safe right? Off to the manufacturer's website!

*GASP*

 This product is owned by Scotts! On that subject let's just say Scotts=Miracle Grow=Round-Up=MONSANTO for now...

On to Scotts info on the Ortho Elementals Insecticidal Soap.  First the product's General tab states "does not persist in the environment, can be used for organic gardening" and under the Details & Usage tab subheading Benefits "For organic gardening" I also found a link on this product's page to a PDF of the product labeling. The one saving factor I find is a note that "THIS FILE IS NOT PRODUCTION READY". So there may have been changes before the final labels that appear on the product were printed. That said:

• PDF Page 1 (FRONT LABEL): states "For Organic Gardening"and has the OMRI Listed trademark in what is a blank green area in the picture from Home Depot and Scott's product page for this item. This area also includes active ingredient info and some typical warnings.

The rest of the PDF pages include info for label you can't see in pics of the product online and would probably only read after your took it home including the instructions for use:

• PDF Page 2 (BOOK-OUTSIDE VIEW): "May be applied to edibles up to day of harvest."
• PDF Page 3 (BOOK-INSIDE VIEW PAGE 2): "May used on edible crops up to and including day of harvest."; "For use...on: fruit and nut tress (e.g., apples, cherries, peaches, pears, pecans, almonts); corn; soybeans; melons; tomatoes; vegetables (e.g., beans, cabbage, cucurbits, peas, potatoes); figs; small fruits (e.g., grapes, strawberry, rasberry); citrus..."
• PDF Page 5 (the spray head sticker): "MAY BE USED UP TO DAY OF HARVEST L0270356000"

Please note - I have not physically seen a bottle of Ortho Elements yet to see if the above statements from Scott's product website made it all the way to print. I am going to try to stop by a Home Depot today to check it out and will update this post after that.

***UPDATE - I have physically seen this product***

So Scott's really WANTS you to use this on your edible plants. No way that they can deny that after seeing this label info final or not. And since their label is at some point intended to include the OMRI Listed endorsement... off to OMRI.org!

On the Organic Materials Review Institute's site under the info for Ortho Elementals Insecticidal Soap I found the following Restriction for this product's use cleared stated on the drop-down tab:

"May be used as an algicide/demosser, herbicide or insecticide if the requirements of 205.206(e) are met, which requires the use of preventative, mechanical, physical, and other pest, weed, and disease management practices. When used as an herbicide may only be used for farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops, nonfood crop uses only; use on any food crop or fallow fields is prohibited."

Holy CRAP! As of this moment it is blatantly apparent to me that Scotts is not only misleading, they are flat out LYING about this product, and probably the other Elementals product as well. I admit I don't know enough about OMRI and their standards, etc. to know if this means this a truly organic product or not - but the fact that it's PROHIBITED TO USE ON ANY FOOD CROP leads me to strongly believe it is not. In fact, it also lacks and USDA Certified Organic labeling either.

So in case you didn't guess - I'm not buying the product. I'm going home to quarantine anything I can find labelled Ortho, Miracle Grow or Scotts in the garage (though dad shall be pissed that includes his grass seed). I don't know how or why OMRI has restricted it from use on edible plants. I don't really care at this point, because if that is the most up to date info OMRI has on the product, then Scotts is LYING and very possible PUTTING THE CONSUMER AT RISK by pushing this product on your organic edible garden.

I'm gonna contact my local Home Depot's about this and the nurseries I visit as well.

Shame on you Scotts.

***UPDATE***